#WINNING
#WINNING
Bobbi-Jo Dureault: An Olympic Hopeful's Journey Through Education, and Entrepreneurship
Discover the power of perseverance and the hidden strengths within adversity as I, Mackenzie Kilshaw, sit with the awe-inspiring Bobbi-Jo Dureault. Her journey from the rinks of Canada's national women's ice hockey team to the nurturing halls of high school education is a testament to the human spirit's resilience. Throughout our conversation, Bobbi-Jo opens the playbook on her life, revealing how championing her educational challenges and anxiety has led to invaluable lessons in teamwork and determination. You're invited to witness the candid reflections of an Olympic hopeful whose career pivots have led to multiple roles as an educator, massage therapist, and entrepreneur.
Prepare to be captivated as Bobbi-Jo and I dissect the art of juggling ambitions with the realities of life's clock. As we examine her student-athlete years, you'll gain a front-row seat to the complexities of balancing a grueling hockey schedule with academic excellence. Bobbi-Jo doesn't just stop at sports - she's a jack-of-all trades with a thriving career and bustling family life. Her story is not just one of personal achievement but also an exploration of the profound impact that a robust support system and the unfailing power of love have on one's journey.
We navigate the entrepreneurial seas, from the spark of an idea to its market debut. Bobbi-Jo shares her real-world knowledge that trumps endless education, the intricacies of protecting a unique business concept, and the competitive edge that fuels innovation. Take notes as we map out the strategies for crafting an adaptable business plan and mastering time management. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a dreamer aiming for the stars, this episode promises a rich trove of inspiration and no-nonsense advice for blazing your trail to success.
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Mackenzie Kilshaw:Hello, welcome to Winning. I'm your host, Mackenzie Kilshaw, and today's guest is How are you today? Fabulous, Thank you. Awesome. So Bobbi- Jo and I are friends. She is someone I really admire. She's a retired member of Canada's national women's ice hockey team. She's a two-time NCAA division one national champion, a former RBC Olympian I don't even like the word former because I feel like if you were an RBC Olympian, you still are. I'm just going to say that she's a certified strength and conditioning specialist, a registered massage therapist and a high school teacher. That is a big resume, Bobbi- Jo. We are friends. I know a lot about you, but please tell the audience a little bit more about yourself.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Goodness, I am very long winded, so I will do my best. Yeah, you kind of just hit it. Those are probably my highlights of my life. I would say, first and foremost, I am a mom and a wife and I feel that I have so many things going on in my life. So, born and raised in Swift Current, Saskatchewan, and, yeah, I've kind of come and gone and I've been all over the world and traveled and I feel like I've had a pretty darn good life and so it's so amazing to be here. Thank you for having me. I love to talk, and so does Mackenzie, and that's why we're friends, I think mostly. But I'm looking forward to this and just talking business, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, we literally said like we're gonna have to keep this like on a timeline because otherwise this episode will be about three hours long. Um, let's start from the beginning of what we talked about, because hockey is a really big part of your life, still is, um, definitely was um a few years back. As I said, former Olympian. I still think you, you still are an Olympian, um, but why don't you talk a little bit about kind of your life before now and really that role of hockey in your life and kind of where it took you?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Okay, so I'm like I said, I grew up in Swift Current, Saskatchewan, so there's not, there's not a lot happening here. You got to keep yourself busy. I had a very supportive parents, so I have I parents here in town and I'm the oldest of three, so I have a brother and a sister and we were all pretty much involved in sports at a young age and any activity that would probably keep us busy. And so I started skating young and playing hockey. When I was seven and this really will date me because I am an old lady I was one of the first to play hockey in Swift Current. I played with the boys. I grew up playing with the boys. There was really no teams and nowhere for me to play growing up, and so I just kept really busy doing that and loved the game and just loved the opportunity being able to play sports.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I will say a little bit in that, like I had a lot of anxiety growing up I still do I'm kind of like an anxious person and had a lot of fear of failure and I think school for me was always a struggle and a challenge. So when people hear that I'm a teacher, they think it's hilarious because they're like, well, you didn't really love school and I didn't. I struggled, and so I think sport and activity and really anything that I did, it kind of it grounded me, it made me feel calm, it made me have fun, but, like the things that you develop with sport, with like being a teammate and, you know, having that accountability and that and being dedicated to things, I feel like that solidified a lot of good habits in my life and so, yes, I could talk and talk, but basically I grew up here, I moved away when I was 16. And I played in Notre Dame for the Athenbury College of Notre Dame and I was there for my grade 11 and 12 years and, lucky, I was very lucky to receive a scholarship, and so that took me another 35, 30 hours away to Madison, Wisconsin, where I was able to do something that I love to do daily and get my education paid for, and so life was pretty good up to that point. At that same time, I was able to be recognized amongst many in Canada for the under 22 team at the time. Now their programs have changed a little bit, but I played four years from 18 to 22 with the women's kind of under 22 national team and was able to travel all over Europe and Canada and a little bit in the States, obviously, with playing at Wisconsin and just had some amazing, incredible experiences and I can say I met amazing people. I was able to play hockey and just enjoy a pretty cool journey through that. And then I did jump and I bounced around with the national team. So you did mention Olympian and I will correct you cool journey through that. And then I did jump and I bounced around with the national team. So you did mention Olympian and I will correct you I was close, I was very close to going to the Olympics, I would say, and maybe not even getting there, just being in that.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I would say I was considered as one of those potential hopefuls. So an Olympic hopeful is what I would consider myself and who knows what would have happened in the end. But unfortunately I endured some pretty big injuries. I had bilateral reconstructive shoulder surgery rate prior kind of to 2010 Olympics and so you know, wasn't able to even have an opportunity to centralize and once again, that's that's who knows what would have happened through that. But a lot of those players I was very lucky to be able to play with the best of the best with Canada and the US, and so that was pretty awesome. And then, you know, another four years went down and 2014 came along and I had I had undergone quite a few knee surgeries. So I've had four in total knee reconstructions and that really sidelined me for good. And yeah, that's my life story.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:That's basically what hockey, my playing career, kind of how that ended for me yeah, I think it's so unfortunate when you hear that injury right, because you trained so hard and you work. Literally you started to play hockey in your seven, you work, I. And when you're seven, I mean actually you probably did think you're going to the Olympics, then let's be serious. But yeah, when you're probably, um, I mean actually you probably did think you were going to the Olympics, then let's be serious. But when you're probably, but you know, you worked your whole like adolescent life and then early adulthood for that and it is really sad. But, like you said, you still came away with those relationships and that network of people and being in that system. And I think you really hit a lot when you said with sports you develop that team mentality and being able to work with other people, which I think really helps you down the line with all of your other future endeavors, right.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Yeah, I think so you make those connections and a lot of those are lifelong connections and some of those you won't see or speak to each other. You know, technology does help with that now, but I'll run in. I just had a former teammate of mine reach out and they're like, oh, I met, like I met people that knew your family and I was like weird, I haven't heard from you in like you know, 10 plus years. And so, you know, you just become a family and and the hockey world is very small and uh, yeah, you, just you can maintain those connections and even though you don't see each other all the time, so it's really nice to have been part of that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, that is really cool and okay. So when you were you got the scholarship, you were in Madison going to school. Did you get your education degree there?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:No, I didn't. So you know, when I was there, I think it's one thing to be a student but it's another to be like a student athlete, and and by that I should say, like you know, student definitely comes first and you know, during the time that I was there. So it's a little bit different. In the states it's it's four years that you can play. Five is Canadian. That usually they honour, you know, those five years for you, depending on how your journey goes.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:But for me it was only four years that I played and I was able to not have to red shirt or anything, despite some injuries that kind of happened at great times and I didn't have to miss really any of the season or bulk of the season.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:But during that time, yeah, I was able to kind of try to figure out what I really really did want to do. And I am a person who I would say I'm a continual learner and I just want I love learning and more than anything, I love, you know, opportunities and experiences that I have. I want to like share those with other people, I want to talk to them, I want to grow from that, and so, yeah, I was able to throw around some different ideas, but I think being a student athlete was challenging because we were gone a lot of the time. We were traveling to play hockey, we were, you know, missing class time, and so there were really limited opportunities, I would say, with like specific programs that I might have been interested in. It was like a very, very difficult school to get into when you are a full time student and that's it. And so, yes, I take education seriously, I'm a teacher.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:But then it was very important and we had yeah, we had to maintain a pretty good GPA to stay on our team and and that was a goal of ours is to have a really high GPA as a team. And so I ended up coming away with like a BA. I was kind of I really wanted to do psychology and so I ended up coming away with like a BA. I was kind of I really wanted to do psychology and I ended up having a sociology degree and kind of more like a minor. We could not double major, so I had a sociology degree, not really sure what I was going to do with that.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:And then I had, like I'd taken so many psychology classes and because I played my four years I was done, but my scholarship honored like a fifth year to sort of finish out any education that I might have needed. If you know, something went sideways or I wasn't able to take enough classes to maintain you know a certain amount of credits. So during that kind of year five I was able to do X and travel with my former teammates and I was able to kind of take more classes. And so I just kept taking psychology classes because I loved psychology. But then I kind of. I kind of took a different route and I was like I don't know if this is what I want to do. So then it opened a whole can of worms.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, well, it's hard to when you're like what? 22 or 23 years old and you have to just literally decide oh, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life, like that's such a crazy thing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:We put a lot of pressure on our young adults to make huge life decisions, right and they're they're young, right, yes, and we look at your resume.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Really, I mean, you're a certified strength and conditioning specialist. You're a registered massage therapist, you're a teacher, like you, and I should tell people here you're a small business, um, because you do actually have a registered massage therapy business as well. So you're a mom, a wife, a teacher and you have your own small business. And because I know you and we're going to talk a lot about this, you're aspiring to likely do some more things in the small business world and things you're passionate about. So, holy, you've got a full plate.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I do have a full plate. Yes, yeah, but I wouldn't want it any other way, Mackenzie, no, I get it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:You're like me, it's like people. What do you do when you're bored? I'm like bored I haven't been bored in like 15 years, because I always have I just move on to the next thing. Or I'm like, oh, I want to do this, I want to do that, and I know you're very much the same. Um, but I do want to just ask you, how do you do everything? Because I know we've talked about this before it's really hard and it's just multiple. You have multiple things going on. So how do you stay organized, make sure that everything's running well? I mean, you're a teacher. You don't go to school at nine and come home at three and that's it for teaching, but your business and your kids. So how does that work?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Oh, I think a whole lot of love and support is how it works. It definitely is not just me. I'm extremely blessed. I, you know, I've been all over the place. Like I said, I was in Wisconsin for a number of years four years, five years almost and then I went to Ontario for about three years and played there a little bit with Brampton Thunder and that was. I don't even think they don't even have a team anymore. Obviously things have changed in the women's uh world with hockey and whatnot. But, uh, you know, I was there and then I was back to calgary and that was that was where we were until really about three and a half, four years ago, and that's when we moved back to Swift Current. And you know my plan growing up here. I love, I love Swift Current.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:It it's a great little city, it's a close knit city, I feel like it's. It's a kind of a small town feel. You seem to know people, you run into people all the time and you know, back to your question, I have a ton of support in my life and nothing would ever have been able to be, you know, done or accomplished without support, and I mean my parents are here, my siblings are here, my husband's family, his parents, his, his sister is here. He is here. Obviously he is a huge, huge supporter of mine amongst everybody else. Even extended family, pretty much is all here.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:So you know, it is a small community but I have I have a lot of support and you know my husband is. He's a guy that he always says it's hard for you to say no, but for him it's hard for him to say no to me. He's very supportive, he knows how I'm wired and thankfully he is very opposite of me and he really grounds me and he's very patient and he understands that I do have goals and I do have dreams and I'm not done yet and so it does take some managing but it does. We have a lot of love and support to help us out along the way. So that is kind of how it all happens and I always say fake it till you make it. Some days, some days I'm just like and you know my students probably hear it in my voice and see it in my how hyper I am and maybe if my hair is combed a certain way but yeah, it's just all about managing and some days are worse than others, but you just get through it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, I mean, before we even started recording, just to let the audience know, Bobbi- Jo texts me and she's like I'm in the waiting room. I was like, ah, like I was running around trying to do four other things before we started recording and I totally get it where. You do also have like those crazier times, but then there are times that that kind of go into a lull and it's never like it's, there's nothing happening. But you do get those moments to, as I say, like catch your breath, catch up on something or whatever it happens to be right.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Absolutely yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, you said there a couple of minutes ago that you're not done. And I want to talk a lot, obviously, winnings, about business, and it's about entrepreneurs and how we get through life and how we get to the next place we want to go, and I know that you do have aspirations to do more in the entrepreneurial world. So let's talk about that a little bit. And I know one of the things you asked me which I'll maybe talk about first and then I'm going to pass it to you. But initial steps.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So you have a business idea like what do you do first?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:And I think that's a question that comes out so much, where people are like I have a really good idea, but like I have no clue what to do, I don't know where to go, I don't know who to ask, I don't know um, initial step, right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So I think that's such a great question, um, because, first of all, it's such a um, normal thing for people to feel not many people have an idea. They're like oh, I have a business idea and I'm going to go talk to this person, that I'm going to call this person, and because most of the time you have an idea and you're you don't know how to act on it. So I think my best advice for that is kind of what you and I do a lot of is talking to people that you know that are already in business, and I always I go to Bobbi- Jo for massage, like to me they're like our little business meeting, yeah, because you're working, because you're giving me a massage, but we literally talk about business, basically the whole time, but I think that's a great place to start is talking to people.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So I know a lot of times you'll ask me a question and I'll be like well, this is what I would do, or this is what I would do, or this is what I didn't do if I faced the same sort of thing.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I think that's a really great place to start, and also as cliche as this sounds, but like Googling it, because sometimes people think I have a great idea and then they Google it and they're like oh, 125 other people had the same great idea and I didn't know it, right. Yes, so I think, though, you've made really great first steps by like talking to other people that you know, that are in business, and really being like okay, this is a maybe, a roadmap. Sometimes you don't even know where you want to go. You just know, okay, I've got this first thing. Now, where am I going and how do I get there? So right, and I think that's kind of the best, the best thing. So do you have any other questions, burning questions on that kind of realm there of initial steps to take? Or maybe you're past that now, like what do I do now?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I feel very lucky and blessed and I feel so grateful for a lot of the opportunities and experiences that I've had. And so, just that alone, I'm like wow, like I've, I've got. I'm sort of like a sponge and I really try to gather information that's gonna not only benefit me, but like how can I pass this information on? And so, you know, I was very lucky to have a wonderful little journey in hockey and that really, that isn't everything that I am, but it was a big part of my life and it sort of was like my identity for a long time. It's like that's what I did.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:But I think, like you know, I think about all the skills that I developed. You know physical skills, like on the ice or with the strength and conditioning, or the mental side of the game, and there's so many different like areas that you can really branch off into. And so, for me, I always think about, like how can I give back to the community, or to women's hockey, or to, you know, a team, or like my kids are starting to play, like I'm trying to coach them, and I feel like, okay, that's good, I'm checking off that box, but, like you know, like I don't know how to like legitimize a product or a service or an idea. Like, how do you legitimize something? Is it because I feel that I've, I've, I have enough education? I feel like I have enough knowledge, but I'm just like no, what? Like how do I legitimize this so that it's like a real thing and like I can take this in a direction?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, 100%. And that's also that's so true, Because when human beings, when you think about yourself or talk about yourself, we often minimize things right, like well, is this enough? Like, is my education enough or do I have I had enough experiences? And I think that, like you said, you've had all of these years of hockey experience and all of the this knowledge and skills to pass on to people.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I think, just right there, that's legitimate enough. Like I don't think you need to go and you know. And education I'm all for education. Clearly you're a teacher, you're all for education. I've taken courses to I'm just finishing my Harvard course now like I've taken courses to make myself better, really, and to get more skills. But I don't think it's something that you necessarily have to do. If you have that, it's fantastic, It'll always be yours and you can always say you did it. But you don't need to just keep getting more education and keep adding more titles behind your name to be legitimate.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I think a lot of it is to be authentic and to be real, and I know you've done speaking engagements before and lots about the mental side, a mental health side of sport, and I think that when you tell your story, just like you did at the beginning here, you tell your story, you talk about injury, right, and maybe that branches out into how that affected you with your mental health, and then you back that up with your experiences and being authentic and you don't have to say I'm a doctor in this or a certified this right, because people aren't coming to you for that. They're coming to you for you and your authentic, real, true self and sharing these experiences. And I think that's the most important part when people see you as authentic and open and real, it really does make you legitimate because they trust you, because you're being you, and I think that's really one of the most important things.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Yeah, I love that. I often, I often say that to myself. Like you know, when I'm teaching my classes to my students, it's there sometimes, like I'll just admit like I have more of a background in like sociology and psychology and I'm thankful and grateful that I can teach that in the school. I'm teaching Psychology 20, which is social psychology, and I'm teaching Psychology 30, which is looking at developmental psychology, really from birth to death, and I'm like so excited and like my class is just like holy, she is just something else, and I get really excited and I tell experiences and I tell and I tell things that I've gone through and and I I'm like you guys, are you guys getting this? Yes, and I'm like think of some examples and so I'm obviously like sharing a lot of me and I'm quite vulnerable in the process, but I think in the, I really feel like that authenticity is what helps me to be.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:You know, have those connections with kids and I think, like you know, even when you think about just being yourself and doing that, I also wonder like what, if you have this idea, like how do you keep it safe? And like how do you keep it like from not being exposed? So in those conversations, like you said in the beginning, like talk to people, tell people kind of get some information, pick their brain a little. But it's like what if I have this great idea and I mentioned it to somebody? And then what if they take that idea and they spiral it and make it, you know, like it's? It's not that I want to protect it, I want to share it, but I want to do it in a way that is like it is who I am and it is what I want it is, it is how I want to share it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:So I wonder about like keeping things like sort of safe or not to expose, because naturally, yes, you want to talk to people, you want to research, you want to gather your information, you want to have sort of a roadmap to like this is where I want to, this is where I think I want to get and here's how I have to do it. And and I always say you know, in that map or in that little, you know mountain, that I always say like I climb it and I have these goals, but like yeah, you have your setbacks and you're gonna fall down, but like how do you get back up? And so I always wonder about, like you know, how much information do you give people and and where do you stop? Because for me I probably won't stop. So I'm going to be like knocking on all these doors and I don't want to. I'm not sure where that really ends or if that's too like kind of offside. Do you know what I mean?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, no, I know what you're saying. I mean, I think when you're talking about ideas, there's a couple of different answers to this. I mean, if you have an idea, okay, first of all, it's all business centered, because at some point in time you want to make money from speaking or, or a program or whatever, it is right, um, so if it's something that you can actually physically like trademark, then you could act, physically, trademark it, so nobody can steal your thing. Now, ideas you can't remark an idea like, let's say, you created a thing, okay, fine, you can do that. Um, but ideas are really tricky to protect. I'll say, but, and they can be copied, copycat. There's always going to be copycat people that be like well, I can do that, and then they just want to go and do their thing. My advice always on that. And I felt the same way before I opened my store. I'm like I don't want to tell anyone what brands I'm carrying, because they might just carry the same brand and then I don't have that brand. Or you know, I'm competing, whatever. But at the end of the day, what I think really, I realized was no one's you, so it's, it's not just your idea of. Okay, this is what I'm going to do for my business, or this is what I'm going to think about, or this is what I'm going to. Whatever it is right at the end of the day, especially when it it is a business that's really centered around yourself and your experiences. No one can copy that because it's you right. So they might say, oh, I, I think I want to make a business that's for mental health and sports with kids. Let's say that's, and you're like well, that's what I wanted to do, you know, but it's never going to be the same. So, even if the premise is the same, it's never going to be the same as what you would do because you're two individuals, your experiences are different, your ideas are probably really different too, and competition isn't always a bad thing.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Competition actually oftentimes will make you better. Right, because you're like okay, now I have someone that's doing something similar to me, what can I do to stand out? Or what can I do? What can I offer my clients or whoever's going to come to me as the business in order to be different? Right to differentiate myself. And I think that's really where you get to the like, the good part, because when you set yourself apart from everybody else, it doesn't really matter what they're doing, it's really only matters what you're doing. So I can't really tell you. You can like lock that idea up in a safe and no one can get it, because it can't really happen. But it's definitely setting yourself apart from everybody else and I think too, just with business, and I'm the same as you, I'm a very trusting, open, honest person and I've told oh, I have this idea.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Somebody comes to me they're like, oh, you're doing this now, like so, and so told me, you're doing this now. And I'm like, oh, like no, it was an idea, you know, or I thought about it, whatever um. But sometimes I think it's just okay to keep a few things to ourselves until it's actually like gonna happen or you're gonna proceed with it, because then you won't get that maybe somebody trying to like copycat you and you don't even end up doing it, if that makes sense, right, right, and that's hard because you're like we, we talk, we like talking, clearly, um, but sometimes oversharing, if you want to call it that, whatever um can be to your detriment. So I mean, but I think really, it's you at the end of the day, it's you, it's the value that you bring. I always say go ahead and copy me because you're never going to beat me. So it's flattering.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Absolutely, I love that. That's great, yeah, and you kind of mentioned something about like, definitely, I'm not trying to hold on to this. I don't have that many good ideas, but you know I'm not trying to hold on to it. But I always wonder like, okay, this could be, you know, reframing it a little differently, so. So, once you have these ideas and you're kind of like, okay, I'm not really sure what to do or how to take it, and maybe I've collected some resources. So, like, what are some steps? To like, okay, I want to launch this. Like, do I launch it to everybody at once? That does not seem good. Or do you try?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:You know the trusting people like, hey, Mackenzie, here's my idea, this is what I'm thinking. What do you think? Like, do you kind of get that feedback? How do you? Where do you go from there? Because when I think technology I'm not the best with technology, I'm glad I figured this out today, but I'm a teacher. Yes, I, you're. My students would laugh at me like Mrs D, do you need me to come up there? Yes, you do. I'm sure I'm as good as I need to be. I'll say that and I could be so much better. But you know, like, where do you go? Like there's so many platforms, how do you know that? You're? You know you got to obviously have an audience, but like, how do you launch that? What are some steps? You're the pro, tell me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah Well, my first advice is make a business plan. And a business plan sounds really daunting to people, cause they're like, oh my God, I'm going to have to figure out marketing and finances and everything. You don't have to figure that out day one. My very first business plan, I think. I did in like four different like tries. Like I'll say tries because first one, if I look back and it was probably really terrible now that I've gained all this experience and knowledge, but really it's to sit down and look at your big things. So like, who are going to be my customers? So like, right, like who, who am I going to try to sell this to? Or who am I going to try to get to come to my business, whatever it is? Where am I going to be? Right, so you're in Swift Current. Is your business in Swift Current? Is your business online that anyone in the world can buy it? Maybe it's just Canadians that can buy it or just Americans. If you're in the States, it's figuring out do you have a physical location? Are you mobile? Do you travel to the places? Is it online? And no one ever sees you right? So I think figuring out really your really your location, figuring out obviously, finances are something that you have to figure out, and that's something you have to figure out pretty soon in because you have to know how much things are going to cost you and you have to know how much money, or at least have an idea how much money, is going to come into you, right? So what you're going to charge, if you're a service, then you're going to search on what are other people similar to me charging. If you're a product, so if somebody's making like a physical product or wants, like me with my clothing store, I'm going to sell a physical item, um, then I have to know, okay, what are my margins. So, two times is really a basic thing, right? So it costs you a dollar to buy it. You sell it for two dollars, right, then that dollar is your, is your profit. So, um, really, those are. Those are the three things I'd start with, right? So who are you selling to? Where you're selling? What's your location? I'll call, call it. And then your finances. And then you, I mean you really are branching out from there, right, because are you going to have employees? Are you not going to have employees? Is it just you, right? Who's doing all the fun things that I love doing, like my bookkeeping and all that. Absolutely not. I pay someone to do that because I hate it and I'm not good. So double, double negative there.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But also, like you said, what platforms? Well, once you know who your audience is, right, so you're gonna, you're gonna have an ideal audience or a target audience, but within that target audience, you're probably going to have a few different segments, right? Because let's say that you want to focus on something with kids in sport, so it's kids, but it's also the kids' parents, because that's who's going to bring them and pay for it. Right? Let's be serious at the end of the day, so you actually have two segments there, so you're going to want to think about those segments. And then, where are they? Or how am I going to reach them? Which gets into your marketing, which is another thing that you have to do. But, okay, the parents. Let's say, the average age of these parents is 30 to 45. Where do they live? Well, they're probably on Facebook, they're probably on Instagram, but the kids are targeting are 10 to 15. They're probably on TikTok, right?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So, when you're looking at marketing things like that and educating, because you need to also educate your potential clients. You're going to look at areas like that. Then you have to look at all of your operational things. So, operational things when am I working? What are my hours? How am I? You know I talked about bookkeeper. How am I scheduling things? Are people phoning me to schedule? Are they doing a booking link on calendar? Am I emailing them, doing a website? How does all that work? And it sounds like a lot. It sounds overwhelming.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But I think if you start small chunks right and you build up from there and for most people it's okay. If it takes a while, it's okay, like a lot of people are like I need to make a business plan and I got to have it done next week. That's really unrealistic, unless you've done a whole bunch of business plans and you're just sitting at a desk doing business plans. It's not really realistic and, like I said, your first try at it's probably not going to be that great.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But it's one of those things where, as you think about it more and when I made my very first business plan, I actually made it as my strategy I was like this is my business strategy, this is what I'm going to do. So I made it partly to go to a bank and get a loan to get money, but I also made it for myself to say, okay, where am I going and how, like, what's the end result and what is every step that I need to do to get there? And I think my business plan was like 79 pages or it was just like huge, like crazy big, but I had, you know, I had employees and I had different brands, like I had kind of a more complex, but it can be simpler than that too. Right, depends what you're doing.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I love it. 79 pages seems like it would take me quite some time. Good thing for summers off, you know.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I have to say, though, I had made business plans before I could go to the College of Commerce at that time. It's now Edward School of Business. So I knew what I was doing. In that sense right, and I knew. But for myself I thought the more information I have in here, the better I'm going to do, because the more prepared I am right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Also, something I didn't even mention was competitors. We kind of talked about competitors earlier. But who else is doing something similar to you, you know? And if it's a lot of people, things are probably going to be a little tough. If it's not that many people, I'm not going to say it's going to be easier. But it's kind of two ways maybe it's not such a great idea, or because no one's doing it, or you're very niche and your target is going to be really small. But once you get into that target group of people, you're going to be their person, right? So it kind of depends what, what your business is and where you're going. But that's where I'd start. So a five minute long answer. I would start with a business plan.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:No, I love it and like, where can I just go online to access a business plan? I mean, I have done a business plan before, but just maybe you have some some insider information to let me know where the best is to kind of or like a template, right, because there's I have done a business plan but there's like there's a whole bunch out there. So is there anything that you would suggest? Or start with some ideas and then you know, gather some, some information, gather the resources that you need, and then you know kind of piece it together that way, or what do you think?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, I mean I always tell people Google because Google is one of those things where, like, you can now listen, you can get down the Google rabbit hole. That it's like you have 98 different business plans and you can't pick. Um, I think a really smart thing, honestly, if you have an idea and you're not really sure and you're like okay, I know I need a business plan, I know I now need these things, but I don't actually even know what I'm supposed to put in it. In all reality, I would hire a consultant. I would pay that little bit of money to hire a business consultant to talk to, even if they don't get them to write your whole business plan for you, because you need to be involved in it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But even if you have to pay them for a few times to steer you in the right direction, lots of them will have either free templates or templates that you can purchase.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:You don't necessarily have to buy it. Free ones, probably as good, it just won't likely be as in depth. But I would definitely say talk to a business consultant if you don't have that experience, because you can end up doing a lot of things that aren't really going to help you or you spend a lot of time on things that kind of lead to nowhere, and you're better off to pay someone to help you than to go down a rabbit hole that you should have never went down in the beginning. So that would be my best advice, and you have to think of that kind of those kinds of things as investments into your business, not just an invoice that I have to pay Right, because that will actually help you and you'll actually spend probably less time on it Because you'll be really focused, laser focused. This is what I need to do and this is what I need to include.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I feel like, because I am a fairly busy person, like most people are, you know, I always think like it's all about.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:You know, sometimes I think I work harder, not always smarter, but I know, in chatting with you, during our little business meetings, massage treatments, and just picking each other's brain and just talking about life and and business and all of that, I feel like you know there's, there's not enough hours in the day for me to be able to like, give more of myself physically, like as far as like I need to be here.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:And I need to be here because I always feel I already sorry, feel that I'm kind of juggling, like, like I said, thank goodness for family and support and husbands and husband sorry and all the other things, because you know, right now, like my kids, my kids play in soccer and I'm like, thank goodness, you know, I had family to help out, and so, you know, sometimes it is about working, like you said, smarter rather than harder. And you know, for me I think I just need to sort of streamline my thoughts. First, because I have a lot of them it seems that I have a lot of different, different ideas, because I get excited, and then, like you said I'm down the googolitis.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I call it when you get googling and you just get like, yeah, googolitis, and so two hours later and you're like, oh yeah yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:So I do appreciate that, because I think I think it is so important to start small and then, obviously, big bit um, build bigger, as opposed to you know, you have all of this and then what do you do with it? Cause that's how I kind of feel with most things, I feel quite overwhelmed. So you know, talking to you, you've always, like, had a level head and you're pretty neutral, and I always really appreciate that. So so, yeah, thanks, I really appreciate all the advice so far.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:You're welcome. Getting to your question about how do I like there's enough hours in the day, like how do I do this when I'm already stretched so thin? And I think there's a couple of things um is setting aside time like it's like anything, right. If it's really important to you, you'll make the time to do it. That's why we all have those lists of things like this is the things I need to do, and like that thing gets bumped to like next Tuesday and then the Friday after that and then whatever, because you're like I don't really want to do it, so I'm just going to push it, kick the can down the road, sort of thing. But I think if you said, okay, every week I want to spend two hours, like pick a small amount of time to like don't try to say I'm going to spend 10 hours on it, because you're probably not, but say, okay, every week I want to take two hours and sit down and work on my business plan or work on my ideas or figure out exactly what I want to do, whatever it happens to be, and then I would say schedule those in your schedule. So put, if you want to just sit down once for two hours, if you want to sit down for 30 minutes four times, if you want to sit down twice for one hour, whatever, schedule it in your calendar, your family calendar, whatever you use, keep yourself organized, because if it's in there you're more likely to do it. The calendar, whatever you use, keep yourself organized, because if it's in there you're more likely to do it. And also, if you do it, like every Tuesday night from eight to nine, I do it you're more likely to do it, because then when somebody's like, hey, you want to do this on Tuesday, like actually, sorry, I'm booked because I have a commitment already, right, so it's not like sure, because if it's not in there, you just be like oh, yeah, free, and then you just never do it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Um, and then the other thing I think I said before if it takes you a long time, that's okay, but I also think it's it is important to give yourself like a timeline where like, and don't say like, okay, by May 1st, I want to have my whole business planned up, because, likely, if you're thinking, okay, that's in two weeks, it's probably not going to happen, but if you say okay, by may 1st, I want to have my target audience figured out and then, okay, by may 15th I want to have my location figured out. Okay, and then by like June 20th because I'm really busy, I have to give myself more time. I want to have my financials worked out, you know, and giving yourself time but little, bite-sized pieces, instead of saying I want to have everything, this whole big project, completed by July 1st, and then like it's June 25th and you're like I've worked for one hour on it because that does happen, right, um, and then kind of set yourself up for failure before you have even started, right. So it's like anything else, just set yourself the time, have a goal and work towards that and don't beat yourself up if you don't get to it, because it's one of those things where sometimes life happens.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Sometimes you, you know, you take on an extra project at work, or you're a teacher, you, let's say you, you're like, yeah, I'm gonna help with track and field this year and I wasn't expecting to, and all of a sudden that's two nights a week and right, it's okay, like life happens, your ideas will still be there. Don't put yourself in so much of a pressure situation because you don't want to get where. You have kind of a negative idea about it because you want to be excited and you want to have enjoyment doing it, because it's part of the process right of getting that business working in the end. So I think that's really yeah. Scheduling small, like don't try to eat an elephant. Take small bites right, like one bite at a time. You'll get there and I think that's the best way to do it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Yeah, I think, you know, being a teacher has its moments and I love teaching, and so we were saying before, like when we do this podcast, I don't want people to think you're quitting teaching because I'm not. I'm not quitting teaching, I do love teaching. I think I will be a teacher my whole life because I do love teaching. But you know, you just think about, you know, what gosh inflation these days and and how am I going to support my kids? You know, you know they're younger now, but I, I always think about that and and you know, sometimes I I say to myself, am I giving all that I can? I, I am trying my best, but is there more that I can give? And maybe work a little bit smarter and not necessarily always have to be somewhere, but utilize some of the experiences and opportunities that I had, have had and, uh, you know, maybe spread the love. You know what I mean.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:So that's kind of where I'm at and I I might come up with a business plan and maybe I share it with you and you're like no bad direction and I'm okay with that. I think that's. That's something that in my life I have. I have had a lot of, you know, you get criticized a little bit and you get that, that constructive feedback, and and that is never a bad thing. I think that's really how we like learning grows. So you know, it probably won't happen, like you said the first time where I nailed it. It's like probably won't, but I yeah, I think I think it's right. It's just about little pieces and carving out that time.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So yeah, exactly, and that will help you get there, because you do have a life, you do have a job, you do have a family, like everything, and as any entrepreneur or small business person, we're all faced with those same things, right? So let it come as it does, but try to stay on track. If that, if that you know and you'll get there, you will get there, for sure. All of your experiences you've had so many do you have a most important lesson, whether it's from your small business or just life in general, that you're like? Everyone needs to know this. I learned it and everyone needs to know it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Oh gosh, I probably have so many cliche ones, but I think one thing that really I struggled with young was worrying about things that I couldn't control. And I think when you and I'll call myself a former high level elite athlete at one point in my life many years ago, when I felt that, you know, a lot of a bulk of my day was spent physically training, working out, getting my body prepared, but also like, mentally, struggling with, you know, injury, struggling with you know the distractions, struggling with the pressure. There's a ton with you know injury, struggling with you know the distraction, struggling with the pressure. There's a ton that you know. When I was done playing and I had my injuries to sort of be like, okay, my body is just, I'm ready to be done. But you know, and mentally I was, I was tired because of that, but I would say my, my best piece of advice was always like, yes, believe in yourself. And yes, like, work hard and always be, you know, a person that they have to consider saying like, if they're gonna like, let me go, or if they're gonna say no to me, they better have to think hard about it. But, that said, there's so many things in your control that that you can control, but it's it's often the distraction of worrying about what's not in our control, and so I would say, focus on the things that are in your control.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:For me, that has really stuck to close to my heart and I think you know we're hard on ourselves. We're we're creatures of like habit and we're creatures of just like negativity. Sometimes we take all that. We won't remember all the amazing things that we've done, but we'll remember those one or two things that, just like that'll wreck our day if we, if we choose to let it Right. And so I have to remind myself of it as well of just like controlling everything that you can and and my life I'm.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I'm sort of like, you know, I'm, I'm a wife and I'm a mom and I'm all of these things a family member and hopefully a good friend, and I'm these things. And then I get to school and I'm like Kate, career wise, I'm focusing on what is now and being present in where I am right now as a teacher. And you know, I make mistakes all day long and I laugh about them and sometimes I kind of like pull my hair out about them and you know, in the end I think people see like how authentic and how true you are. If you really care about something and if you control as much as you can, it's gonna hopefully work out in your favor. So I would say, just worrying about what you can't control, that would be good, A good thing. That kind of I've held close to me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I agree, and I only learned that lesson, like five years ago.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:I think it was.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:COVID. Honestly I was like wow, can't control this. Gotta, let it go, let that weigh on you, there's nothing you can do about it and it's eating you right. A lot like so, yeah, um, is there anything you wish you had known or something that you could tell your younger self?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Oh, these are good questions. Uh, you know what I think. You know my mom. When I was young, my parents always, like they believed fully in everything that that I did, and I really think that they felt that way about my brother and sister. They tried to support us in whatever it was that we were passionate about. But I think you know, believing in yourself. So I remember my mom giving me this poem and a few years back I had to. I was, I was lucky enough to speak at the comp here where I went to school in Swift Current. Didn't graduate here because I was lucky enough to speak at the comp here where I went to school in Swift Current. Didn't graduate here because I was in Notre Dame and I graduated there. But you know, I recited the poem because I memorized it when I was young and I still, I could still recite it.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:But it's all about, like, yes, controlling what you can, but like if you don't believe in yourself, it doesn't matter if every single person in the room believes in what you can do.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:You're never going to get to where you need to go if you don't fully commit and believe in yourself. And so for me that's like so important. And so, when I think about all the things that I feel like I get excited about, I think about, like, if I really want to do something and for like people that are like listening, if you want to do something and you've said it to me because if you want to do it, you can do it and so I really think, if you believe in yourself and you have, you know, something that you feel passionate about, I think that that is going to supersede everything. And in my you know journey, there's been times where I doubted myself and I didn't think that I could do it, and there was just that tiny ounce or a second that I felt that way and bam, like it's like something bad would happen because of that negative thought. You know that thought process that entered my mind. And so it is about like really feeling, feeling strongly about who you are and what you have to offer.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Sometimes, for sure, and I think too, like you just said, something bad happened. Sometimes, if you're in that negative headspace, nothing bad even happens. You just see that, or?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:You see right.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Yeah, you feel it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yes, right, and you're almost looking for it where, when you're in the positive, well it's. I mean, glass half full, glass half empty, right, when you see the positive of things, there's more positive things. Law of attraction yeah, empty, right we're. When you see the positive of things, there's more positive things. Law of attraction yeah, absolutely and honestly.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:When things are going well, oh sorry, I was gonna say when things are going well though it's so easy to it's so easy to be happy, but then it's like your true character test is when things don't so sorry. I thought, well, that's true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:No, no, you're good. That's the thing. That's the thing with business and entrepreneurship and everything else. There's highs and lows, and we've all gotten through the lows right. So if you just look at what's good and you keep going or, like you said, that little bit of you, that fire in you, you will get there and you will figure it out. And if you need help along the way, that's okay. We're all human. We don't know. I'm starting a new endeavor. When people listen to this, I'll be a few weeks in. I'm going to be lecturing at the University of Saskatchewan as a sessional lecturer. I'm so excited. I'm also terrified because it's a new experience and I think that's just human nature, right? I think the day, when the day comes, it's going be fantastic and I'm going to love it. I guess, check in then because, well, I will love it. But you know, it's just it's. It's scary, it's fear and we all have that, um, but at the end of the day, that experience is going to outweigh any of that fear and negativity.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:So well, you're going to do amazing. Can't wait to hear about it.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Thank you. I know one of my friends is like can I video in and watch? I'm like, absolutely not. This is for students only. Well, it'll be fun to share my experiences. Yeah, it'll be fun to share my experiences with the next group of people, right? So I'm really looking forward to that. Um, why would you, if people do want to learn, learn more, more about you, or maybe send you a message or something, where is the best place for them to find you?
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Oh, gosh, I am on Facebook. I should know this. I am on Facebook. Uh, I'm a little bit old school, I do. I do have Instagram, but like I'm not on these things a lot, so we might have to like get into that. I mean, I can't give my phone number I don't know if you suggest that, but probably email If anybody wants to drop me an email. I'm pretty savvy on the email so they can message the podcast. Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, maybe that they can message the podcast and I can get you the message and get it back to them. Yes, because there's always people that reach out with questions.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Yes, and it's not that I don't like social media. I just sometimes I have to take a break and sometimes there's too much up here where I'm like I just get it, I just gotta be. Yeah, it's probably a very big weakness of mine, but, yeah, reach out to Mackenzie or the podcast and and uh, yeah, if you have any questions, for sure I am able to also thank you so that they can yeah, can get a hold of you if they want, and I can send you some of my information after.
Bobbi-Jo Dureault:Well, I can send you probably my information after. I don't know if that's helpful and you can post it. I don't know, or I can post it and I'll tag you.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I'll tag you. People can find you. Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:much for being on. You were a great guest. I loved answering your questions. I hope that helped you and to everybody listening. Thank you for tuning in again and we'll see you in the next episode. Thanks for listening to Winning. Be sure to subscribe to get all of our new episodes. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media and leave a rating and review wherever you listen to Winning. To catch all of the latest from us, you can follow Winning Podcast on Instagram a winning underscore podcast, facebook at Winning Podcast and on Twitter at Winning Pod. Winning was created and is produced by me, mackenzie Kilshaw Music, created by Summer Furby, editing by Seth Armstrong. Special thanks to Shauna Foster for voicing our opening and, of course, a huge thank you to this episode's guest. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.
