#WINNING
#WINNING
Dana Graham on Transitioning & Pivoting in Entrepreneurship
How often do you find yourself working late into the night, struggling to separate business from personal life? This is a shared battle cry for entrepreneurs and small business owners everywhere. Join host, Mackenzie Kilshaw and Winnipeg Realtor, Dana Graham as we journey into the heart of entrepreneurship, revealing strategies for managing a successful business while nurturing a healthy work-life balance.
Dana and Mackenzie dive straight into the trenches, recounting Dana's inspiring journey into entrepreneurship and the vital lessons learned along the way. Remember, growth is the aim, but not just any growth. We delve into Dana's unique approach to business expansion, discussing the importance of working on your business rather than getting lost in it. Dana also underscores the value of planning for the future with an exit strategy and succession plan - because every entrepreneur needs an endgame.
In the latter part of the conversation, we navigate the challenges of transitioning from working in a team to going solo, and the intricacies of selling a business. We also share productivity tips, discussing how automation and time management tools can streamline processes – creating space to focus on enhancing client experiences. Dana's experiences offer invaluable insights into the entrepreneurial journey, providing inspiration for balancing business success with personal fulfillment.
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Winning is your guide to making it in business. Join our award-winning host and entrepreneur, Mackenzie Kilshaw, and special guests in casual conversations that will educate and inspire you on your business journey. Winning will help you learn the hard lessons the easy way, with guidance from celebrated entrepreneurs and business leaders. It's fun, it's informative, it's Winning.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Hello, welcome to Winning. I am your host, Mackenzie Kilshaw, and today's guest is Dana Graham.
Dana Graham:How are you, Dana? I'm great. Thank you for having me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I'm so excited to have you on here. If you don't know who Dana is, she is a Winnipeg Realtor with a passion for business systems and maximizing productivity so that you can enjoy your life, which we're going to talk about this today really important. She has worked for a marketing research company and then she became a Realtor in 2016. She's always been interested in creating community and roots, which I also love, and she has a podcast too. So I'm interviewing an interviewer, which is always fun, but it's called the Bus Bench and it's a really similar thing to my interview style podcast with other business owners, and they discuss businesses that allow you to live life as well. It's really important. As entrepreneurs and business people, we sometimes lose ourselves in our jobs. So, yeah, thanks for being on.
Dana Graham:I'm really excited to have you here, me too. Yeah, this was awesome.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, no, I love it. We always chat before. I know I always talk about this, but we chat before and kind of talk and I'm like, oh, because I'm also going to be on your podcast, which I'm really excited about, because I'm like it's so much easier to get interviewed than to host.
Dana Graham:Always, always. So I'm just sitting back and relaxing, honestly, yeah exactly.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So today you get the easy job and then in a few weeks I'll get the easy job. So do you want to tell our audience just because I don't know you, a little bit more about yourself and kind of who you are and what you do?
Dana Graham:Yeah, so, like you were saying, I'm a realtor in Winnipeg. I've been a realtor for seven years with Century 21 Backman and Associates. I had a team and recently disbanded the team. So we can talk about that a little bit too, if you want, yeah. But yeah, I really enjoy being a business owner and I enjoy kind of the ins and outs of balancing kind of the flexibility of your time versus trying to implement some structure into being a business owner, because that's, I think, something that I struggle with, yeah, and that's kind of me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, I think everything you said I struggle with. I think every entrepreneur and small business owner that I've ever talked to struggles with that. It's really hard to turn off, it's really hard to separate, especially for a lot of us that work from home. It's really hard to separate work time from not work time, because it kind of all blends into one right.
Dana Graham:Absolutely. I was actually just talking to somebody else today and realtors work a lot from home. I think there's a little bit of a misconception that we're always out doing showings, but a lot of it is computer work and it's necessary to have either an office elsewhere or some kind of separation between like, okay, I'm working now, this is my office, whatever, and then physically leave that spot.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, I agree.
Dana Graham:And then now it's like family time, or now it's like me time, because otherwise, yeah, it just all melds together.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, it's so true, I think, having an office or for a lot of people I know they work from their dining room table they don't have a dedicated office, right, but I think a lot of it is maybe setting yourself some like business hours, quote unquote yeah Right.
Dana Graham:Yeah, exactly, not even set. I would love to have set business hours every day, but even just today when I wake up, okay, this is the amount of work I'm going to do at eight o'clock tonight I'm done and then actually being done. And I tried to have one of those bedtime things on your phone where it like turns off notifications. Yes, goodbye just yeah, because if I know it's there, then I'm answering, and then it's been good luck.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, it's so true. It's so true. And I know I had a physical brick and mortar business, but social media was a big part of my business and I know that when I first started out. At you know, 10, 30 pm, I'm in bed and someone's messaging me, asking me what an item, and I'm like, well, I want to answer because they might come in tomorrow or they might buy them online store. If I don't answer it now, then they might lose interest and everything else. But without those boundaries of it's 10, 30 pm, I'm in bed I should not be answering this question. Yes, without that, you just do it. You just answer it, absolutely.
Dana Graham:And that's like that's something that I've. I'm learning, but I've started to realize people don't expect you to answer at 10, 30 pm. I always thought like. I always thought like, oh, they're messaging me, so they want a response. But then, on the flip side, when I send an email at 10, 30, it's just so I can get it off my plate. It's not because I want somebody to reply to me at 10, 30. So that I don't forget to do it at another time. But it's hard to yeah, hard to realize those things in somebody else.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I agree, and even myself now as a, as a customer, I'll say if I'm going to send an email, I'll actually schedule it to send. So, even if it's 10 pm and I'm like thinking about it and I'm like I'm the same as you or even a business, what I'm like, okay, I'm just doing this now so I don't forget, I'll schedule it to send, like tomorrow morning at 9 am or something, so that I'm not I'm doing it at 10 pm, but that other person doesn't actually get it till tomorrow morning.
Dana Graham:Yes, oh my gosh. And the satisfaction of waking up in the morning knowing that, like 10 emails are being sent out but you're still like relaxing is the best, that's the best feeling, yeah it's so true.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Okay, I want to. I want to backtrack, because I feel like they're already like into our like conversation here. But, like, let's just backtrack a little bit. So you were in a marketing role, yes, and then you became a realtor. So how, how was that transition? And yeah, like did you? You were like I, I like this marketing job. I don't like this marketing job, I want to be a realtor. How did this go?
Dana Graham:Yeah, so actually what I was doing was market research, so it's it's kind of the back end of marketing. We had clients who were looking at what stores they should supply with their product or we did a lot of political polling where political parties would be trying to gauge how they should phrase a message during campaigns or how they should you know what kind of commercials and ads they should put out and how they should phrase it. So it was kind of the back end of marketing. I didn't do a lot of like of front facing stuff but honestly I loved, loved that job. It was fantastic, very interesting stuff. We worked with a lot of really interesting clients and I think, just for For me, it came down to where I could go with it and obviously how much money I could make, and that's always a consideration when you're talking about a career.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, for sure, For sure. Everybody wants to know how much am I going to get paid? Yeah, and can I make more than this somehow? Yeah.
Dana Graham:Where can I go from here? Yep, and Winnipeg is just a much smaller market than Toronto and Vancouver and there wasn't a lot of space to move within the company where I was, but also other companies in Winnipeg. It just the growth wasn't there. So I kind of considered my options and my husband is self-employed and so I kind of thought, oh, it would be nice if we could match our schedules, because he doesn't work full-time necessarily. He has weekdays off, certain days of the week, or he'll work mornings but then he's off in the afternoon, and I never had that flexibility. So I was looking into essentially different career options that were self-employed. I think lots of people who are self-employed or have businesses, they have a task, they have a talent or they're making something or they have like. And I didn't have I'm not like making signs or I'm not like handy, or I don't have a talent.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It was through, though right, because lots of people took something they enjoyed doing making scrunchies, for example, which was huge in the last few years, exactly, and that's our business.
Dana Graham:Totally.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Right.
Dana Graham:Yeah, and I just kind of sat on it for a month because I didn't want to be that person who was like I'm going to be a realtor and then just like do it? Just hop straight in without actually knowing what you're going to be doing. I think real estate agents have a similar. I mean, we are self-employed but there's structures in place. We don't have to do some of the aspects like billing that other people have to do. Yeah, and I just kind of sat on it, for I sat on it for a month because I didn't want to be that person who was like I'm going to be a realtor, and then just like, do it what you're going to be doing.
Dana Graham:Yeah, and I met a couple of other realtors who are in the business to see what things were like. And then, yeah, and then I started taking the courses while I was employed. At the time. It was very interesting. In real estate you could not have another job, you could own another business, but you couldn't have another job and be a realtor. And so I straight up quit my job. Scary, crazy, yeah, thinking back like whoa, that was a big decision, but I think it was good because it really then all of your attention is on this thing and you're not doing it part time. So, yeah, that's good, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It's true, because if you're in something, you should be in it.
Dana Graham:Exactly.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Right.
Dana Graham:I mean I understand also that I was privileged to do that. Not everybody can quit. I mean I had to spouse and so I did have some support. I like to be self-sufficient, so that was a driving factor for me. But not everyone can just quit their job and not know where they're going to, where their next paycheck is coming from.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Essentially, yeah, exactly yeah. And so when I started my first business, I was single and I didn't have that spouse and that was the most terrifying thing about quitting my paying job, because I knew my mortgage was covered and I knew my car was covered and all those things. And when I stepped into owning a business, I had no clue like I could, I can, maybe not pay my mortgage.
Dana Graham:Yeah, yeah. And on one hand, I think you have to be a little bit unaware because otherwise we wouldn't do it. Yeah, Like if you fully knew you'd be like holy crap. But on the other hand, yeah, it's, it's so scary.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, it should. I just did a contributing chapter into a book, so yeah, so it's really cool. Now I'm a published author which, like never in my wildest thoughts would that ever happen. But I actually have a part in there where, when I started, I'm like I don't know if I was dumb or like didn't actually think failure would be an option, like I'm not sure which one it was. Yeah, but I was like, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm doing it. And I just jumped in and reflecting back and like, well was I thinking, and it turned out good for me, it all went well. But I'm like whoa, like did I not even think about what if I can't pay my mortgage? Or if I was just like I'm going to make sure I can pay my mortgage? I'm I don't remember and they wish I would have kept a journal or something to look back at this stuff. But I think I, I think I just thought, well, if I'm doing this, I'm doing it and I'm going to make it work.
Dana Graham:Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:And jumped in.
Dana Graham:And you need you need that very optimistic, high hopes mindset, because otherwise I mean, yeah, I there. I struggle sometimes with this because I think there is some aspect of you need to be realistic and and like positive thoughts don't get you the full way, but they definitely do help you make those initial decisions, that help you leap into things that are literally terrifying and the consequences are high.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:High, exactly, yeah, like not having not being able to pay your mortgage. I mean that's a huge consequence.
Dana Graham:Right, that's the biggest. Yeah, exactly.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, okay. So you said you just dismembered your team. So I'm assuming after you started you built a team.
Dana Graham:Yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Okay, so let's go back to that point. So so you quit your job, you start, you start in real estate. So how did, how did your journey go? Because I know, if you dismembered a team, you built a team.
Dana Graham:Yes, I did, um, so I started in real estate in 2016 and I was a solo agent for a while and then, in 2021, um, a friend of mine actually was thinking about getting her um, uh, to to become a mortgage advisor or mortgage broker. Okay, um, and I, I was like, no, you need to get your real estate license, get that, get your real estate license. And so she did. And then, um, we discussed becoming a team together and uh, yeah, so she was getting licensed. I was, um, you know, getting things together so that we could be a team, and so she fully got her license in July 2021.
Dana Graham:The market was crazy, um, so we were. I needed help and it was just, it went and we worked really well together. Um, and I did want a team because eventually, I don't I don't everyone's I think in business, you have to kind of think of your succession plan and I, being in real estate, it's very forward facing and it's very hard to draw boundaries because you're working on other people's timelines and and they're important timelines because they're looking for a house offer that are being accepted. You know, Thursday at eight o'clock. Well, if you say I don't work past eight o'clock, it really it was a negatively.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Exactly, exactly.
Dana Graham:So I I wanted to have a team so that a my availability, or just availability, is higher for clients. So if I want to take time off or if I want to draw some of those boundaries, my clients aren't as affected and be I really enjoy. Sorry, there's going to be a fire truck going by, so I thought hey, there's emergencies happen.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I've had printing happen and what not in the background too, so it's all good.
Dana Graham:Yeah, so I also want to eventually. I love the marketing aspect of owning a business, I love this kind of stuff, but I find doing doing the actual transactions, there's a lot of things that come up from out of nowhere and there's a lot of things that are high stress and I can foresee myself not wanting to do this forever. Yeah, yeah. So that that was kind of the thought behind the team, and then the onboarded a third person to the team earlier this year, I think. Yeah, I think earlier this year, yeah, so we had a. I had a three person team.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:So when you're, when you're talking about this, though, it just sets me to the thought of working on your business and not working in your business as much, which I think, and I we're going to talk about systems in our business in a little bit but I think that's such an important thing because, especially when people are first starting out, they're really working in their business yeah Right, they're doing everything, they're doing all of the things. Then they maybe realize I need more of a team. So you bring someone on and then maybe you don't like doing something or you're not really good at it. Then you get that new member of your team. Well, you're good at this, great, you can take over this job.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Then I, I like the marketing, I can work on the marketing, and that will bring us in new clients and make us more money. So everybody wins right. But it's yeah, it's the on your business and the in your business, and I don't think we really talk about that a lot. We just think, well, I'm the business owner, so I have to take everything on myself.
Dana Graham:Exactly, and it's so difficult to do that, especially as you get busier in it. Yes, like you, you need to be able to get above it and think, okay, what's the five year plan, what's the 10 year plan? But when you're so busy with real estate transactions for me, or first with sales, or whatever, then you can't think ahead to those things, which is great. I mean, sales are the things that make money, so it's hard to not focus on that.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But I think, too, you made another good point, because when you're first starting a business, you need an exit strategy. Which is like insane to think that, well, I'm just starting, I can't think about how I'm getting out of it because I'm just starting it. But what is your succession plan? Do you plan to sell it? Do you plan to have someone take over it? Do you plan to just close, like what's your end game? Because decisions you make at the beginning or while you're building your team will change based on what you want to do.
Dana Graham:Totally.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Right.
Dana Graham:Yeah, and I think it's. I wanted to build something that is not just again, not just me doing the things. I wanted to build something that was real, and to me real means it may employ other people, or it may be it's a system instructor that supports other people as well. That could potentially one day it's tough to sell, but I think if you build it in the right way, it could be sold. And that's the ultimate goal is to you're making money while you're working, for sure, but then also to be able to make money when you're not working. Is that's right, yeah?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It's huge. And the thing too is, your life changes and where you start out today is not where you might be five years, 10 years, 15 years down the road. I never in a million years thought I would ever sell my business, because that was my baby and I built it and I loved it and I still have fond memories and I but I sold my business because I got married and I moved. That was not anything that I foresaw. I thought, oh, maybe I'll get married, but I didn't think I'd get married to someone that lived in a different city. So I may be well, I'll get married someday, but I'll just live here and I'll just sell my business. And that was a circumstance that I never thought about.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Eight years before, when I was starting my business, I thought I'll just have this forever and then I want to retire one day. I'll just sew it to her clothes and that, or I'll have a kid and they'll take it over. That was kind of my thought. But life threw me a curveball and none of that was going to work. So I had to think a different way. So I did sell my business and moved on to something else, and that was really hard, but also it's what I had to do, right like at the time. That's what I had to do, and I know when you say you dismembered your team. I'll talk about that now because clearly that's what you had to do.
Dana Graham:Yes, yeah, and, like you said, you don't really know where life is going to take you and for me I was. This year in real estate is a little bit of a tougher year because we're post pandemic interest rates are going up. It's a very different market and I was. I also had this conversation earlier too. But I think each of us in a business is just striving to have the role in your business that you want. So some people it's just like a one single person show and that they love doing that and that's where they stay.
Dana Graham:Or do you want to be a manager more of a manager role over seeing things? Well then, you have to hire people and get to that role. We all expand to the point where we're happy with whatever role we're doing, and I was working on team dynamics and team structures and I loved it, but I felt that I was paying more attention to the team culture and dynamic than I was to clients. So usually I would touch base with clients and go for coffee with them and go for lunch. Instead, I was touching base with the team and going for lunch with the team and making sure everyone is happy, and so my focus shifted and I was spending a lot of time on the managing aspect and not so much on the client aspect and it was like it's just two different jobs and I would have really enjoyed that job if it was as lucrative as the actual transacting part.
Shauna Foster:Right.
Dana Graham:But it wasn't, and so I had to just make a decision between well, do I continue doing this job that's not making me as much money, or do I go back kind of start fresh with a new perspective?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah.
Dana Graham:Yeah, and that's what I ultimately decided to do.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Well, and it's pivoting because you kind of lived both. You did it with just you and then you did it with a team, and there's pros and cons for each right and there's things you like about each and there's things you don't like about each, and that's life and that's business. But when you sit down at the end of the day and look at something and decide you have to make a change, that's a really awesome decision, but it's a really hard decision.
Dana Graham:Yes, it's hard. Yeah, I can imagine selling. I mean, I think about that sometimes too, because real estate is so area specific. Even if you had your license in another province, you're starting from scratch. Yeah, that must have been huge for you to make that decision to sell and start from scratch. But also, I guess, on the flip side, you know you have the capability to build a business and that doesn't change, so you brought that with you, yeah, and I made changes slowly, like I went from brick and mortar to just online.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Okay, I had two spaces and I had people that were looking for spaces. So, honestly, I literally signed a paper that signed me out of my lease. And they signed the paper which signed them into the lease N, and so I mean I say that really easy. No, it was months of finding people and negotiating and making sure that the building owner wanted them. There was a lot to it, but at the end of the day, I signed a piece of paper and I was no longer responsible for those spaces. And for some people it doesn't turn out like that. They have to leave their lease, they default. You know when things happen. I was very fortunate that I left on really good terms and there was new people there and that was great. And I actually got money from these people because they bought a lot of my fixtures and things like that my computers, because I don't need to take three computers with me, right. So I was very fortunate and I think a lot of it was hard work, like I put the work in to find people to take my spots and I was able to leave.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I went to an online only or online exclusive platform for over a year, which I also really enjoyed. But my life had changed so much because I'd gotten married, I was in the new city, I had a step son and I also got a daytime job quote, unquote because at the end of the day, too, like you have to pay your bills, right, and so it was all great. But I just got to the point where my online store was more of a job instead of when I had my physical stores. I loved it because I loved seeing the people and visiting with them and finding the items they loved were. Just the online store for me was more I would film.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It was a chore and I hate to say that, but that's what it became, because my kind of my life was somewhere else at that time and I still had sales and I still had really great clients and amazing clients, but I wasn't fulfilled by it and I just knew, literally one day I woke up, I'm like I have to sell my online store, like I have to, and I just had to do it and so I did it. I sold it. And same thing hard work finding a buyer, finding the right buyer, because you don't want to give your baby to someone that you just are like here. Take it, give me money and I'm leaving. You want it to be the right person and you want them to do well, and I was fortunate to find the right person and go through the sales process and do it. But that was also my identity for nine years. And so, all of a sudden, now you, you have a team and that's your identity, and now it's just your solo again. It's rebuilding everything because you're not.
Dana Graham:You're not a business person on that self, you're one being yes, right, yeah, and it's hard to differentiate sometimes, like you were saying, especially because when you're building a business, so much time is going into it, so much you're compromising your time, your family's time or whatever to build it, so of course your identity is going to be wrapped up in in in it. Yeah, I feel the same way and now I'm trying to separate, separate it a little bit and just say you know what? It's a job that I have, it's not who I am, but that's a very tough separation.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:After, after seven years, yes, I can oh, I feel you, yeah, because I still struggle with it, because people still listening to me like, oh, you won that clothing store, and I'm like no, I did, I did, but not anymore. And then you're like well, that's all that people know me for, you know, and which is fine because you, that was your life, but it's you have to make that pivot or that change.
Dana Graham:Yeah and and kind of. I mean it does force people to get to know who you are apart from it, because it's like, yeah, I'm, I am not. You can never be fully yourself as a business owner because you have to be professional and that's that's what it is. I think you can be authentic and not show you know you're full, fully who you are. But yeah, people know a part of you as a business owner and as, like, the face of of a clothing company or something, but they don't know all of you.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:No, that's right, that's right. Okay, so let's kind of just move over into systemizing your business, and I think I'm just going to assume this, but you can tell us when you've gone back to solo you've really had to systemize, because now again, it's just you, you. You aren't relying on other people to do other aspects. Right?
Dana Graham:Exactly. Yeah, so I have. I have ramped up my. I have a virtual assistant who has been helping us throughout, but I've kind of ramped up her, her part of of my, her part of my, I don't know, so that your business really, yeah, yeah.
Dana Graham:So that she can help with those those things a little bit more and I can focus on on selling a little bit more. Luckily for me, the the 1, not the 1, there's a lot, but 1 of the takeaways from having the team was when I was a solo agent. Everything was in my head. I had clients and I'm like, oh, gotta get back to them on Wednesday. And then it's like in here, and then when Taylor said that she was getting her license, it really got me to think outside of myself and be like, okay, how is she going to know the possession dates that I have coming up, and how is she going to know who I'm working with and the last time I've contacted them, and and how would she know any of that stuff? So it got me to kind of get everything out on paper and we use a client management system called Monday. com.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh, love Monday, Love Monday.
Dana Graham:Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yes.
Dana Graham:I'm like originally an Excel screen, an Excel sheet geek, and so it's like basically Excel sheets, but like better yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:But if you've not used Monday. If you're listening and you're like what the heck is Monday, I know so many people that use it and they all have way different kinds of businesses. Yeah, like it's so functional because you can add so much information.
Dana Graham:Yeah, it's so customizable. What a plug this. They should be paying us for this.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, this is not a. This is not Monday. com. Hello, this is not a paid advertisement, but we're really endorsing you here.
Dana Graham:It's so great and it has helped me now to transition back. At least I have it all laid out there, I don't need to be telling like for me. I don't like repetitive menial tasks. I procrastinate doing them and I things get very.
Dana Graham:I procrastinate so much that things get very unorganized if I don't have systems in place and so I agree, I've got you know if something goes from active to pending, my virtual assistant gets an email and you know. On automations like that really help, because if everyone's relying on me for information and to send documents, realistically it's not going to happen. I'm out there focusing on client experiences and selling instead of the backend paperwork stuff.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah well, and then what happens is at 8pm let's say, you're out doing showings and you come home at 8pm and what happens is, instead of you sitting down and relaxing and reading a book or enjoying your Netflix show, or whatever it is that you need to do to recharge, you are on your computer.
Dana Graham:Yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:And then people sending things hey, can you do this? Hey, I need to do this. Oh, yes, I'll get back to you tomorrow, whatever it is, and you've now spent two hours.
Dana Graham:Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It just flies by and now you're like I have to start my day tomorrow and I'm tired and I never recharge and all the things that you need to do to be a really great realtor, business owner, whatever your job is tomorrow are struggling. Now you have spent literally your entire day working.
Dana Graham:Yeah, exactly, and it is. Yeah, that's how you kind of burn out. I think it's so important to take A, to take long breaks away from business, b, at least like a day off a week, and then B also, or C, I guess, to have some time during the day when you're not working. And it sounds really silly, but to have some time during the day, like you said, where you literally end it and then you read get your mind away from it. Yeah, otherwise, it's so easy to A spend. When I was, if I wasn't married, my husband is very good at you know, reminding me that like time can be spent doing other things. But when I was single, I would just work because it's like, well, why don't I do something else when I could be making money?
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I know, and when you're done there, it's easier because you can stay up later and get up earlier what I'm not that old, I'll tell you right now it's not as easy because I'm even now me. I need more downtime than I did 10 years ago.
Dana Graham:Yeah, definitely.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Like I do.
Dana Graham:Yeah, it's hard to do, it's hard to recognize that in yourself, but I think part of owning a business and doing taking action like you, like you were saying you woke up one day and you were like I have to sell this online store. You have to be really in tune with yourself to realize those things, because otherwise you would have probably kept that online store and and every time you got an order to be like oh man, now we have to like, do these 10 things to get it shipped out, and it takes a really big mental toll on on you. You have to be really aware of yourself to yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:And you don't want to get there.
Dana Graham:No.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Right, like you don't want to get to the point where you're like I hate what I'm doing.
Dana Graham:Yes, exactly yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:You want to make those changes before and that's why like honestly using something like Monday. Yeah just make sure you don't ever get to that spot where you're like I don't wanna ever see this again, cause you can automate things. Is there other systems or other things that you use besides Monday? Once again not paid advertising, but like let's just talk about what works for us.
Dana Graham:Yeah, my top favorites that I use. So I use Plannoly schedule my social media, cause I do have two accounts I have my work one and then I have the podcast one. So it is. It makes it a lot easier when you have time to just block it and schedule it all in instead of trying to daily think of what you're gonna post. And then I also use Calendly, which you use as well.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I do so love it.
Dana Graham:It is life changing and I probably should be sponsored by Calendly. The joy that it brings me to see, without the back and forth of what time works for you I'm available these days, oh, I can't do this week because, whatever, and oh, where do you want it Like. To just see something scheduled in without having that back and forth, is amazing.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It is shocking to me the amount of time that it takes like to sit down and try to match schedules with one person. One person if you have to do it with five people or seven people. Something as simple as Calendly I think it's $100 for the year, like it's not expensive, and I think there's even free options. I think so too, yeah yeah. So, once again, not a paid ad, but you can pay me if you want to, but Calendly, you literally send your link and somebody goes in and picks a time that works for them.
Dana Graham:Yeah, and they can like, they can exactly see, and you can set parameters too, which is what I love. It's not like oh, they can see every available spot. Oh, but you meant for that to be personal time. You can just be like oh, I'm only doing the podcast on Wednesdays and Thursdays and then that's all.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Exactly, that's all I see and for me, like I've had international guests, I've had guests in Australia come on, I just send them the link and they find it. We were talking about a whole different, it's like a different day over there and they found a time that works for them and they're like nope, this is great. It's 7 am here. It's really early, but I like to do these things early while my kids are, you know, before my kids are gone to school, and it's worked out so great. Otherwise, you're dealing with time zones, you're dealing with different people's schedules and once you put something in your calendar, it blocks that time off, so it's gone. So if I have a doctor's appointment at 2 pm, they can't look at it at 2 pm on Thursday. Whatever it is, you guys gotta look at Calendly. If you don't have it, please look into it. Any type of business that you have, it's a scheduler app that's going to be your best friend.
Dana Graham:Yeah, I find it really reduces the risk of miscommunication too, because it's especially different time zones, like 8 am could be 7 am, but maybe they misunderstood that it was two hours difference, not three, or whatever it is.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yes.
Dana Graham:Or you know, I said 5 pm. Well, this is a bad example. But I said 5 pm, but I meant 5 am or whatever. It just takes all of that out.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, exactly. Have you ever systemized something that didn't work out?
Dana Graham:Great question. I mean I was trying to use Calendly to book showings Because to me that is one thing where there's like you're trying to schedule you and the client like your client, and then also the seller schedule and the opposite schedule, but trying to do that and then also home inspection, because that's like a three or four hour time block. So I thought if clients could see my schedule at least they could be like okay, this is what's available in advance, but it doesn't really work for those applications. And there was a couple of like booked but then it turned out it didn't work.
Dana Graham:So then they knocked the book and it just complicated it. So for one-on-one appointments, where you're only working with one other person's calendar, it's fantastic. But once other people's calendars come into play, doesn't work.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I think too, there's like a million apps, there's a million websites for all sorts of things. So I think, figure out what you need for yourself and do a little research, because we've told you about a few here now. But figure out, maybe Calendly doesn't work for you, for your clients, but it works for a different aspect of you, or maybe there's a different app that works better. We're giving suggestions because we've used them, like these, but there's so many different things and I think a virtual assistant or a VA you hear lots of times on my VA, virtual assistant they are really great at helping you do a lot of things and you have to pay them. But guess what? You just get to send them what you need to and it's done. They send it back to you. You don't have to spend the time on that.
Dana Graham:And I think it's so neat to now because they have like my virtual assistant shout out to, Michelle has different time packages, so for me I don't have to commit to hiring somebody part-time and then if I have a slow month maybe I'm still committed to paying them, but maybe I didn't utilize their services. Yes, I pay her on the hours that she actually works and so if I do have a slow time then I'm not committed to paying somebody for that time frame.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:That's a great point, because that's 100% right. You don't want to say, oh, I'll hire you for 20 hours a week or 10 hours a week and then you don't need them and that's some expense for you.
Dana Graham:Yes, yeah, exactly.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:That's awesome, very valuable Fiverr. Where have you, did you find your virtual assistant?
Dana Graham:She's in Winnipeg.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Oh nice she's close to you, yeah.
Dana Graham:She was actually just kind of came up. I think when I was searching on Instagram. Her information came up. But I did interview a couple of virtual assistants, one from Calgary and one from or else in Canada, but I just landed on Winnipeg just because she already was familiar with the paperwork and stuff.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, yeah, Fiverr is a site that I've used for lots of different things, to be honest with you, and there's lots of virtual assistants on there. So definitely something, and doesn't matter what your business is maybe your virtual assistant does your social media yes, post for you, or maybe they do your paperwork, or maybe they, if you have a podcast, they set up your guests, like there's so many things that they can do for you that will really especially if you are a solo, a solopreneur, as I call him yeah, that like take the load off of you so that you don't have to be doing those tasks that either take too much time. Take up your free time, right, because you have to make sure that you also have that free time too. It's really important. You cannot stress enough Go to the spa, read a book, go for a walk, whatever it is that you need to do, because that will save you right. Yeah, yeah, I, every morning I go to the gym.
Dana Graham:Same here, yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah.
Dana Graham:Yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:And then I sit down. Yeah, I have coffee at my computer. If I have to do emails, if I have to, I always have a certain report. I do every morning. I do that when I'm having my morning coffee and then I go to the gym and it's an hour of time. I only go for an hour, but it's an hour of time that is for me and I don't work. Sometimes I work, sometimes I slightly do work, but it's mainly just for me, and then it's done and I feel good about it Because I don't have to worry about now. I have to go at 10 PM and everybody's schedule is different, right? Maybe your exercises. I go for a walk at 7 PM Every night. That's what I do.
Dana Graham:Yeah, exactly, and yeah, it doesn't have to be the gym, but as long as you have something, like you said, you work sometimes, but that's your choice. You have that time and you can use it however you want to. You're free from the burden of feeling guilty of working, but you can work if you want to, but it's like that time where you're free of that obligation.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, I love that, and whether it's like it can be a half an hour of your day.
Dana Graham:Yeah, totally.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Right, yeah, maybe you say from 12 to 12:30 is my time and I do with it what I want. I eat lunch, I go for a walk, I do laundry a, I watch Kardashians, whatever it's your time that brings you that recharge. I always call it a recharge of your batteries, right? But then you know, then you have that time of your. Your brain maybe isn't just focused on everything else that you're doing that day.
Dana Graham:Totally yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, that's great advice. Do you have a most important lesson that you can share?
Dana Graham:Great question. I think, wow, I don't know.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It's a really loaded question because sometimes I say something that you could tell maybe it's just someone starting out and they're listening to this because they're like I want to have my own thing and it's just a. Maybe that advice is the set time aside, but something that they can really take away.
Dana Graham:I think for me, one of the things that I especially with my recent changes, now one of the things that I would just say is being successful in business literally just takes it. It takes staying in it. I think everyone's scared of failing in business or failing. You know what? If I start something and fail? We're all pivoting, we're all changing. It's not what if you start something and it doesn't go well, that doesn't mean you failed in business. That just means you're pivoting and you just need to stay in it longer. I don't know.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, that's great advice.
Dana Graham:Persevere yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:I think yeah, and resilience, like you got to be tough.
Shauna Foster:Yes.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:It's. It's a tough thing to have your own business and it's a tough thing to make changes. I mean, you made a huge change this year. That's really hard, yeah, but just knowing that the other side of this change, or this pivot, is gonna actually be really awesome. Right, and looking forward to that.
Dana Graham:Definitely yeah.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah.
Dana Graham:Yeah, it's, yeah, enjoying every part of it, not just the big wins.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, I agree, and it's not failure, it's learning, yeah, and it happens to everybody. We've all had stuff that you're like well, that didn't turn out as I hoped or planned, and sometimes it's something small and sometimes something really big, yeah, but you learn your lesson and you carry on totally. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome and anything you wish you had known.
Dana Graham:Um, honestly, no, there's. There's things that I'm glad that I learned, but I think if I had known, if I had known about mistakes before I had made them, then a lot of the action that I took wouldn't be I wouldn't have done it, and I think it's important that I, you know that I did it and learned it for myself also. Yeah, when I was Starting my business and still sometimes like you can't tell me anything, if you tell me, oh, you shouldn't. If somebody had told me, oh, you shouldn't start a team because you know, whatever you might find it to be too much, and and you won't have a team anymore, I'd be like, nah, not me.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Not me, never gonna happen to me.
Dana Graham:So I don't think if I had known, you know, or somebody had told me anything ahead of time, if I would have even listened. I have to actually experience.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Yeah, it's true. Hey, same as me. Yep, you're gonna open a business and you're gonna sell it. No, I'm not right. Like it's the same. And you're right. You have to go through those experiences To learn and grow and develop and change, like we're not. We don't say the same, you're not the same person that when you're 25, 35, 45, 55, you develop and grow and change and that's okay. Yeah, your business doesn't have to be today what it was 10 years ago.
Dana Graham:Exactly, yeah, yeah, it can change yeah that's great advice.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Where can people find you? I'm sure that people want to learn more about you or be able to follow you, especially your podcast, so where can they go to to learn more?
Dana Graham:I always plug my Instagram, so at my work one is a realtor u raham and then for the podcast it's at The Bus Bench Podcast and then, yeah, my website is dana d raham a century 21.ca.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:Awesome. Thank you so much for being on. I cannot wait to be on your podcast because then I don't have to. I get like the fun part. It's fun hosting. I shouldn't say that it's really fun hosting, but it's also just fun telling your story and I appreciate that. You shared with us today and your journey and a huge thank you for being gone. Thank you and everybody listening. Yeah, thank you so much for everybody listening.
Mackenzie Kilshaw:We'll be back next week with a new episode, so thanks for tuning in and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening to Winning. Be sure to subscribe to get all of our new episodes. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about on social media and leave a rating and review wherever you listen to it. To catch all of the latest from us, you can follow winning podcast on Instagram a winning podcast, facebook Facebook winning Winning Podcast on Twitter at a pod. Winning was created and is produced by me, mackenzie Mackenzie, music created by summer Summer, Firby editing by Seth Armstrong. Special Thanks to Shauna Foster for voicing our openings and, of course, a huge Thank thank to this episode's guests. Thanks again for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.
